Stat Up abuse.

Options for each.

Cloyster

• Forretress
  Skarmory
  Smeargle
  
  

Gallade
[list][*]Machamp
Lucario

Ninjask
Smeargle
Scizor (baton pass variation)

Not much can do this job.
Out of ideas. I could use a special pokemon though.

Sorry, Im gonna have to be harsh, but thats because I see a bit of potential here:
Since you have Ninjask, it means you plan on using this on OU, thus Cloyster must leave the lead position, she simply is beaten by too many popular leads. In its place, you should use Forretress, who has the same moves, save for Whirpool, a much better typing and a way to beat most leads, save for Azelf and Infernape. Second, you are extremely weak to Water moves, with Cloyster gone, your best bet is probably using Rest/Talk Suicune, who has resistance to Water and can be extremely useful lategame where little things are able to stop her. The member to be replaced by Suicune should be Nidoking, as Nidoqueen provides you with a vital check for Mixape.

Umbreon, while cool, is simply Setup fodder, specially for Lucario, who takes anything he has, and doesnt mind Charm much, since he is faster, and a +0 CC will OHKO, and if given the chance, get his SD up and proceed to sweep, so, as much as I hate to say this, you gotta change him, my suggestion goes for the popular DDMence, as he can set-up on a lot of stuff, and causes a lot of switches, thus racking spikes/SR damage.

This is just a quick overview about your problems, as Im unable to read the format well, but you do have a lot of trouble with common OUs

@ L. Sorry not to heed your advise but Nidos and Umbreon are the only thing I made this team for. They are one of my favorites and I wanted to capitalize on them as well as doing something unique and Cune just doesn't cut Unique and neither does Forretres. I am regretful of using ninjask but I saw no other way around it.

If you must insist on keeping all these pokes (other than cloyster) then you may want to consider changing their sets, having three pokes that are completely shut down by taunt is crushing to the team. Also I don't think the charti berry will help ninjask as much as leftovers would. As the charti berry is one time use and leftovers allows ninjask to stall the enemy team longer by alternating between sub and protect which. If you're using ninjask to pass atk and spe, on the receiving end, have something that can't boost the stats that are being passed, like marowak (it can only boost atk and speed boosts will allow it to tear through the enemy's team.)

As for cloyster, I'll help you think up a lead, but what kind of lead do you want? One that sets up spikes, one that can rapid spin, etc.

A scarf gallade will help your team revenge kill and scarf gallade is fairly powerful and has good coverage.

For nidoking, superpower is better than brick break.

Nidoqueen and Umbreon, as the first paragraph suggests are a hindrance to the team due to their lack of attacking moves.
Umbreon, replace captivate with baton pass, captivate is extremely situational because it is based on gender. Baton pass can allow umbreon to scout switches, pass boosts that it may recieve from ninjask if another poke can't safely switch in, and most importantly, it can pass a mean look to one of your pokes to help them set up. It lets umbreon trap its opponents and pass a wish to your other pokes which may prove to be invaluable.

You may want to consider replacing one of your pokes for a spin blocker since your team using 6 turns to setup entry hazards. If you want to stick with non OU pokes then maybe a nasty plot mismagius or calm mind spiritomb. (Umbreon can help them set up, and if mismagius is chosen, ninjask's speed boosts will give it the speed to sweep without issue.)

L...

Every Pokemon has a Counter.

Scizor is countered by HP Fire Magnezone, Heat Rotom and Heatran, yet you don't see people just not using Scizor because of that.

So, I think you should stick with Umbreon, but the set isn't actually that good.. A mixed Sweeper completely Screws you over while you try and lower one Stat and it sets up with the other. Or even a Taunter will push you into Struggling..

Mean Look is good on this set, but with you lowering stats and forcing switches, you may want to slap on Pursuit so you can deal some decent damage to fleeing Pokemon.

Haxinluck777 wrote:

If you must insist on keeping all these pokes (other than cloyster) then you may want to consider changing their sets, having three pokes that are completely shut down by taunt is crushing to the team. Also I don't think the charti berry will help ninjask as much as leftovers would. As the charti berry is one time use and leftovers allows ninjask to stall the enemy team longer by alternating between sub and protect which. If you're using ninjask to pass atk and spe, on the receiving end, have something that can't boost the stats that are being passed, like marowak (it can only boost atk and speed boosts will allow it to tear through the enemy's team.)

As for cloyster, I'll help you think up a lead, but what kind of lead do you want? One that sets up spikes, one that can rapid spin, etc.

A scarf gallade will help your team revenge kill and scarf gallade is fairly powerful and has good coverage.

For nidoking, superpower is better than brick break.

Nidoqueen and Umbreon, as the first paragraph suggests are a hindrance to the team due to their lack of attacking moves.
Umbreon, replace captivate with baton pass, captivate is extremely situational because it is based on gender. Baton pass can allow umbreon to scout switches, pass boosts that it may recieve from ninjask if another poke can't safely switch in, and most importantly, it can pass a mean look to one of your pokes to help them set up. It lets umbreon trap its opponents and pass a wish to your other pokes which may prove to be invaluable.

You may want to consider replacing one of your pokes for a spin blocker since your team using 6 turns to setup entry hazards. If you want to stick with non OU pokes then maybe a nasty plot mismagius or calm mind spiritomb. (Umbreon can help them set up, and if mismagius is chosen, ninjask's speed boosts will give it the speed to sweep without issue.)

a)I am willing to give up Cloyster and Gallade, I just haven't found anything to do it better without being standard.

b)Charti Berry and EVs are for originality

c)Scarf Gallade is smogon. That is precisely what i am attempting to stay away from.

d)I will test that.

e)I'll try baton pass but Nidoqueen needs all of its moves and is my only taunter on the team. Roar is absolutely nexessary as I have one many battles with it and I need both toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock.

f)first priorty for lead is originality, then Rapid Spin, then Spikes and Spin blocking.Explosion is nice too. And I don't care so much if it is OU as if it is original. So I wouldn't mind replacing say Ninjask with the common pokemon Smeargle as long as Smeargle could serve the same purpose efficiently and originally. (Thanks for offering to help)(I accept. Cloyster

g) @ Daiko, you'd be very surprised at how well this team holds up against taunt. If the enemy uses it early on game I can just kill it with either Nidoking or Gallade or Exploding Cloyster or take advantage of it and predict the switch and do very good SE damage, especially with Nidoking who seems to pack SE on everything. If they don't do it early on then the damage has already been done. Thanks.

And does anyone think i should try NidoBoah and open up a spot in Ninjasks place?

Daiko wrote:

L...

Every Pokemon has a Counter.

Scizor is countered by HP Fire Magnezone, Heat Rotom and Heatran, yet you don't see people just not using Scizor because of that.

So, I think you should stick with Umbreon, but the set isn't actually that good.. A mixed Sweeper completely Screws you over while you try and lower one Stat and it sets up with the other. Or even a Taunter will push you into Struggling..

Mean Look is good on this set, but with you lowering stats and forcing switches, you may want to slap on Pursuit so you can deal some decent damage to fleeing Pokemon.

I never said otherwise, the problem is that as Ninjask is on the team, the team itself will face a great deal of pressure from OU threats, Im way more experienced in OU that Im in UU. Lets see some examples of common OU threats that destroy this team:
DD Mence, DD Dos, MixMence, AgilyGross once Umbreon is gone, MixApe once Nidoqueen is gone, NP and SD Infernape, CroCune, CursePert, CM Latias, Lucario (at +2, even with her decent defenses and resistance, Nidoqueen/King wont enjoy CC, it isnt a 2hko, but it does hurt), DD Tar, Scarftar(doesnt OHKO much on this team, but does 2hko most of them with the correct move) and even RestTalk Dos are huge threats for this team, again, either she agrees to change some of her team members to give the overall team better Synergy, or gets rid of Ninjask and chooses a UU Pokemon that lets her face common UU threats better, as in the hands of a skilled player, any of those Pokemons completely destroys this team in OU

@ L.

Umbreon has outlasted every other member of my team in about 85% of my battles. And Nidoking is a sweeper and so his 81/77/75 Defenses and good resistances let him switch in and sweep. Though without Captivate I find myself in a very difficult postition against mixmence or a female mixmence in general with or without Captivate. That is a problem I am looking to solve. Other issues are CM Cune and Acid Armor Vaporeon. And I specifically put this team in OU and even without Ninjask I would still use it in OU because

a)there are less pokemon to learn and to cover against

b)people use predictable smogon sets, giving me an edge

c)certain weaknesses are more common here, especially physical and 4x weaknesses, aiding Umbreon and others.
In reality I have a harder time with UU people who accidentally (or using my same idea) went in standard apposed to taking Heatrans and Draco Meteors.

Daiko wrote:

Scizor is countered by HP Fire Magnezone... and Heatran, yet you don't see people just not using Scizor because of that.

You have a detatched view of what a counter is. Both are OHKO'd by CB Superpower and are not counters. Everything said about Umbreon is correct, though Mix Sweepers aren't common sets (but they are common threats).

You have a single Earthquake resist (immunity) while you have 2 weak and the only way to get around Earthquake is to take 50% from SR on something so frail a fart could down it. And you're in the extremely powerful OU teir with a single OU. Even if the tiers are based upon usage, there's a reason UU is UU and OU is OU. Your team cannot take hits well, especially if you are iffy on Wish on Umbreon.

Your lead straight up is just wrong. As many have said, Cloyster will not work against many leads and even then it doesn't do it well. Forretress would be a good lead if you took out Nidoqueen. Skarmory would also work.

Gallade with Earthquake. This alone tells me you have either very little competitive battling experience or too much UU and are jumping head long into OU. Gallade has terrible bulk and you made his offenses absolutely terrible in order to provide more somewhat worthless bulk. Gallade likes Speed, but since this is just a bad set in general and this team doesn't quite work for it, I don't see the need to go out of my way to give you a set when it seems you did 0 research on him.

No Ev's on Nidoking. Brick Break is redundant and useless on a slower team such as this. Nidoking has Megahorn, Stone Edge, and Head Smash that you should be looking at.

Nidoqueen that is extreme Taunt bait with no way to defend itself and no way to beat things like Lucario who already wreck your team which Nidoqueen can be used to counter.

Umbreon doesn't even need a mention. It just adds to the whole 'the team isn't doing anything productive' feeling.

Ninjask also adds to the misplacement of the team. Pulling a Ninjask turnaround sweep late game on a team that doesn't put any pressure on the opponent's team is nearly impossible to pull off. Something like Gliscor, I feel, would be doing this better but it would add to the overall weakness of the team to Ice and Water.

As I said, you don't have a firm grasp of what you want the team to do. You have a basis of what you want to do, which is to use Ninjask passing on UU's to score a sweep, but you do it extremely ineffectively with this team. I think you need to take a deeper look on the OU metagame before you make another team like this, as any well constructed team tears this apart.

Herpdidderp wrote:

Daiko wrote:

Scizor is countered by HP Fire Magnezone... and Heatran, yet you don't see people just not using Scizor because of that.

You have a detatched view of what a counter is. Both are OHKO'd by CB Superpower and are not counters. Everything said about Umbreon is correct, though Mix Sweepers aren't common sets (but they are common threats).

You have a single Earthquake resist (immunity) while you have 2 weak and the only way to get around Earthquake is to take 50% from SR on something so frail a fart could down it. And you're in the extremely powerful OU teir with a single OU. Even if the tiers are based upon usage, there's a reason UU is UU and OU is OU. Your team cannot take hits well, especially if you are iffy on Wish on Umbreon.

Your lead straight up is just wrong. As many have said, Cloyster will not work against many leads and even then it doesn't do it well. Forretress would be a good lead if you took out Nidoqueen. Skarmory would also work.

Gallade with Earthquake. This alone tells me you have either very little competitive battling experience or too much UU and are jumping head long into OU. Gallade has terrible bulk and you made his offenses absolutely terrible in order to provide more somewhat worthless bulk. Gallade likes Speed, but since this is just a bad set in general and this team doesn't quite work for it, I don't see the need to go out of my way to give you a set when it seems you did 0 research on him.

No Ev's on Nidoking. Brick Break is redundant and useless on a slower team such as this. Nidoking has Megahorn, Stone Edge, and Head Smash that you should be looking at.

Nidoqueen that is extreme Taunt bait with no way to defend itself and no way to beat things like Lucario who already wreck your team which Nidoqueen can be used to counter.

Umbreon doesn't even need a mention. It just adds to the whole 'the team isn't doing anything productive' feeling.

Ninjask also adds to the misplacement of the team. Pulling a Ninjask turnaround sweep late game on a team that doesn't put any pressure on the opponent's team is nearly impossible to pull off. Something like Gliscor, I feel, would be doing this better but it would add to the overall weakness of the team to Ice and Water.

As I said, you don't have a firm grasp of what you want the team to do. You have a basis of what you want to do, which is to use Ninjask passing on UU's to score a sweep, but you do it extremely ineffectively with this team. I think you need to take a deeper look on the OU metagame before you make another team like this, as any well constructed team tears this apart.

@Herpdidderp
a) I think he implies that Magnezone and Heatran are scarfed like they usually are.

b)Have you seen an Umbreon against EQ? it does nothing and the second one after charm does even less. And I usually end up avoiding SR altogether due to Cloyster being extremely difficult to kill by anything that can and does SR.

c)Umbreon can give stat downs much faster then most pokemon can get stat ups and I've already explained the Taunt stuff. It works. Its one of those things that doesn't work in theory but does work in real life.

d)68/65/115 holds up very very well after a bulk up and leftovers with these evs. try it and you'll be very surprised. get one on the switch and get another and your good. The only problems are Gengar and Salamence/Dragonite. That is why I'll probably be using Rock Slide or Stone Edge. And a 125 is still very high even with out evs, as long as it has bulk Up. And I already said that Fighting/Ground is redundant to me. I just can't decide what to replace it with.

e)I already said fighting/ground is redundant and please tell me that you can tell the evs. He is a PHYSICAL SWEEPER. Make a wild guess at evs. And give me some slack. I'll edit that as soon as I get time. But thanks for the move suggestion, that is the kind of thing I need.

f)Taunt and Umbreon have already been mentioned. I just can't decide what to give up on Umbreon for like Payback. Nidoqueen works fine against Lucario and their usage is plummeting anyways from my experience in OU. I've done more battles then you think.

g)YOU come up with a replacement for him. The only other thing is like a baton pass Scizor (but I may look in to that) and a Smeargle.

h)................. Constructive please. THe point is originality. And give examples of say HOW TO. And I've done about 200+ battles in Standard thank you very much. The only thing I got out of this is the idea for Scizor and moves for Nidoking + 80billion non helpful comments.

Blumey wrote:

@Herpdidderp
a) I think he implies that Magnezone and Heatran are scarfed like they usually are.

Doesn't matter. Neither can switch in effectively if they are OHKO'd. Prediction is needed and prediction is never something to rely on.

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b)Have you seen an Umbreon against EQ? it does nothing and the second one after charm does even less. And I usually end up avoiding SR altogether due to Cloyster being extremely difficult to kill by anything that can and does SR.

Umbreon takes physical hits well. Until it has to take Salamence or Infernape. Anything that hits Umbreon SE will crumble it faster than you think. CB Scizor will continually U-Turn out, Infernape will still hit hard with STAB SE Close Combat and even non-SE Fire Blast. You're also assuming you will somehow outrun your opponent who uses Earthquake (Swampert or Hippowdon maybe) and they will stay in without you using Mean Look. You waste too many turns setting up and taking hits when it's very easy for it to fail and you don't actually accomplish anything other than force a switch which can be done much faster. Your set works if you can somehow pull it off on someone who has no idea how a solid team works or certain threats function but otherwise it is painfully inneffective. If you are saying I am uneducated about Umbreon in OU, you are very wrong.

Cloyster doesn't do jack **** to any Ghost type, especially with your moveset. And with Rotom-A one of the most common pokes in OU and the fact it OHKO's Cloyster without a problem I don't see how your SR problem is being handled. Cloyster may work against opponents setting SR, but NOTHING against opponents blocking RS.

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c)Umbreon can give stat downs much faster then most pokemon can get stat ups and I've already explained the Taunt stuff. It works. Its one of those things that doesn't work in theory but does work in real life.

You are obviously playing opponents who do not know what they are doing if you find the Umbreon set to 'work irl'. Umbreon has to take a total of 3 hits on just about every offensive threat before it can actually start dropping stats effectively. 1 turn to switch in, 1 turn to use Mean Look so your stat dropping doesn't fail when the opponent switches, and 1 turn to drop the stat. You also depend on gender for your Sp.A drop which is anything but reliable with Latias running around and your team lacking any sense of defense to it. You also lack any way to heal yourself or actually make use of the stat drops once they are down. Baton Pass or Wish is necessary and it still doesn't help your set much.

Instead of openly defying everything everyone says, perhaps you should try another set.

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d)68/65/115 holds up very very well after a bulk up and leftovers with these evs. try it and you'll be very surprised. get one on the switch and get another and your good. The only problems are Gengar and Salamence/Dragonite. That is why I'll probably be using Rock Slide or Stone Edge. And a 125 is still very high even with out evs, as long as it has bulk Up. And I already said that Fighting/Ground is redundant to me. I just can't decide what to replace it with.

It's bulky when you don't have to switch into any attack and nothing attacks you before you set up. You also can't take any SE hits on the side you're not boosting. Then yes, it could be considered bulky. I will not try it. Your set is so focused on defense you go against Gallade's nature and try and turn it into a tank with extremely low base power moves. I see no use in this when I can use Metagross and not have to worry about taking a turn to set up while retaining more powerful moves and more bulk.

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e)I already said fighting/ground is redundant and please tell me that you can tell the evs. He is a PHYSICAL SWEEPER. Make a wild guess at evs. And give me some slack. I'll edit that as soon as I get time. But thanks for the move suggestion, that is the kind of thing I need.

If you know it is redundant and you lack the intelligence or will to fix it then I don't see the need to help you. It's a cop out to say 'build this part of my team because I'm lazy'. Throw out a suggestion or two. You also spew some pretty ignorant and quite frankly stupid statements. Scizor is a physical sweeper yet it hardly keeps a normal Ev set. And if it is what you are implying as the 252/252/4 spread, then why the hell haven't you taken 2 seconds to put it on OP and fix your error. You obviously don't give two shits about this team and simply posted it to try and annoy people by arguing with terrible logic or are just a lazy bastard.

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f)Taunt and Umbreon have already been mentioned. I just can't decide what to give up on Umbreon for like Payback. Nidoqueen works fine against Lucario and their usage is plummeting anyways from my experience in OU. I've done more battles then you think.

Payback doesn't help your set at all so including it won't do anything. Nidoqueen works fine against Lucario while it can't actually defend itself and must eat +2 Crunches (or god forbid uses Ice Punch) while it Roars. This takes about 50% out of Nidoqueen instead of simply running Earthquake so you won't get KO'd and the set loses it's Taunt weakness. I don't see how Taunt helps this set tbh when Roar just knocks away things that want to set up. Lucario has dropped about 1% in overall usage since September. Explain how this is 'plummetting'.

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g)YOU come up with a replacement for him. The only other thing is like a baton pass Scizor (but I may look in to that) and a Smeargle.

**** you. I don't have to do jack **** for you especially if you can't take the god damned time to take an interest on your own team.

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h)................. Constructive please. THe point is originality. And give examples of say HOW TO. And I've done about 200+ battles in Standard thank you very much. The only thing I got out of this is the idea for Scizor and moves for Nidoking + 80billion non helpful comments.

Originality =/= workable team. Something a few people here have yet to grasp, not saying any other names. Oh god please, 200+ battles is a joke. Don't even start thinking about yourself in a 'high and mighty' sense or even a seasoned player.

a) whatever. Not my argument.

b)Anything but infernape and CB Scizor will not recieve it well. I have tried it out. And I have never seen this set before and anything it switches in on has no reason to suspect it. And the only thing that will not like Charm is a special which is rare.
I never implied that it is meant to outspeed. It is perfectly fine with taking 2-4 physical hits without having its charm up.

c)I already said Cloyster needs replacing. Im thinking of Smeargle.

d)It works and I may invest more special evs though. The only thing that needs improving is the moveset offensively.

e)I am. But maybe you should give ideas on what to try instead of what is wrong. I tried Superpower and Baton Pass and I am happy with it though I am considering what to take of your moves. It helps to give constructive criticism.

f)I changed it. And Scizor generally doesn't need as much speed. I think you can infer. I know you are smart but please give ideas.

g) I'll try EQ. Thank you. What do you think I should give up?

h) I am not. I am probably one of the newest people here. but pleas e make it constructive. And yes I have done about 200. WHen did I say I think I am good. I just hate smogon sets and avoid them except when absolutely necassary. Did you know that they make games for FUN? not arguements. I know you are far superior to me as are most people but please give I deas. and on the YOU make a lead i was just trying to say that there are few options, not literally telling you to make one.