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 Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?

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Gir

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PostSubject: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:36 am

So, as many of you know, with Latias back in Ubers, Smogon has chosen to make Salamence a suspect, and set up a ladder with him banned, what are your opinions on the idea?

Personally, I love Salamence, its versatility, its looks, its ability...he is considered the most dangerous Pokemon in OU for a reason...but for that same reason I fully support him going to Ubers. Lets be honest, Salamence has reached a point he is even more dangerous then Garchomp was, Draco Meteor, Outrage, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump, Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Brick Break and others re all part of his movepool, his stats are all above average, his typing, although giving him a weakness to Rock and Ice, gives him resistances to Fighting, Grass, Water, Fire, Poison, Ground and Bug, giving him plenty chance to switch in, specially with Intimidate make him able to switch into pretty much any non-SE physical attack. His Attk and SpAtkk mean nothing can switch in safely, P2, the closest thing to a Mence counter, gets 2hkoed by Draco Meteor, Blissey cant switch into any physical attack, Skarmory gets roasted by Fire Blast, even Steel types get 2hkoed by a DD outrage....the amount of things mence kills is ridiculous, so I fully support him being moved to Ubers, what do you guys think?
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:45 pm

Yeah the metagame is far better off without him

Everyone is basically forced to run 2 steel types on their team if they don't want to get swept by DD Mence.
There is no counter to Mix Mence except Cresselia who really isn't that great in OU
It completely rapes stall

Without it, a few more pokemon can get attention such as dragonite, albeit he he nowhere near as good when it comes to sweeping.

I'd vote Salamence Uber if I could
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ninetalescommander

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:14 pm

I want Salamence to stay OU
I don't even see why its being tested as its not exactly fast
The only things that are notable about it are Dragon Dance, Intimidate and its vast movepool
Apart from that, I find it quite easy to take down
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AnjuTehDarkBunny

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:17 pm

I agree, Salamence isnt that hard to take out at all, i like starting off with a Plusle, and whenever i see a Smence, i can still take it down in like 2 turns.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:07 pm

Well I want it in Ubers period.
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AnjuTehDarkBunny

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:09 pm

Salamence may be good, but in Ubers, it would just be destroyed.
Keeping it where it is would be the best thing, since theres rly only 4 good dragons, taking out like the number 2 of the 4, thats just not fair.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:12 pm

Mence should stay in OU in my opinion, but it wouldn't make much of a difference what tier its in to me. UU/NU is the way to go Wink
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Gir

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 pm

Garchomp was relatively easy to take down too, and Latias was dead if she didnt watch out for Pursuit users before killing something, the point is that, to take down Mence, you have to sacrifice at least 1 Pokemon, and sometimes even 2. And Ninetales, how is it that Intimidate, Dragon Dance and movepool are nothing more than an "only"? Salamence has coverage, has offensive stats, has decent bulk, has an awesome ability, has a decent typing, is completely uncounterable to the full extent if SR are up(Cresselia can only live DM+Outrage is SR and off the way) and basically destroys every Pokemon that doesnt outspeed it.

To Anju, I find it hard to beleive you actually deal with Salamence using such a pathetic pokemon (by OU terms) as Plusle, he will switch into at least 1 of the following: DD, Draco Meteor, Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Blast or Flamethrower(maybe Brick Break) in any case, he is screwed if SR are up.

And Aka, if you are just gonna play UU/NU, dont comment on OU tier changes, it is just basically the say as saying "Im gonna opinate on something I dont have the slightest idea about"
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AnjuTehDarkBunny

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:14 pm

Um dont doubt my Plusle, my Plusle is fast, and first turn against an Mence, i Magnet Rise, then Sub, then 1 or 2 Tbolts, then boom its down.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:22 pm

AnjuTehDarkBunny wrote:
Um dont doubt my Plusle, my Plusle is fast, and first turn against an Mence, i Magnet Rise, then Sub, then 1 or 2 Tbolts, then boom its down.
Well, lets see. The slowest Salamence set is able to outspeed Neutral Base 80s, and thats bulky mence, extremely rare nowadays, the mast majority just say "to hell with magic number, i`ll go for max speed". Then, second turn, what assures you can set up a sub? Even a New Mixmence outrage takes you down to your focus sash, so you cant defeat it with that strategy, trust me, I know enough about OU to know you are probably either A)Lying or B)Playing against the worst noobs
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:30 pm

Pretty much...If it becomes uber, I'll start playing OU.

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Gir

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:33 pm

Nagi-Nagi wrote:
Pretty much...If it becomes uber, I'll start playing OU.
Oh God, thats just another reason for me wanting him to go for Ubers(and the fact that, like I said, my favorite Gen IV Metagame was after Garchomp was banned but before Mence got Outrage)
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:46 pm

AnjuTehDarkBunny wrote:
Um dont doubt my Plusle, my Plusle is fast, and first turn against an Mence, i Magnet Rise, then Sub, then 1 or 2 Tbolts, then boom its down.
most ridiculous statement ive ever heard
1. mence outspeeds plusle unless its bulky, which can beat plusle anyway
2. any of mence's moves ohko plusle to begin with
3/ Let's play this ou: U magnet rise on eq if for some fail reason mence is slower, u sub, u get hit, u attack, and get ohkoed by anything mence packs, like outrage for example
4. Or mence could dd, then roost on u continuously until it gets to plus 6 and then sweeps ur whole team in no time flat

Mence is sway to versatile, it pretty much guarantees a free kill. Mixmence has no counters and can rip massive holes in teams. DD mence with outrage does insane damage, not to mention that mence can be bulky as well
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:49 pm

Nay, If we're gonna follow this then why not ban gyarados, Dragonite or feraligatr. It's not like sweepers are invincible. Weavile, Swine with ice shard, gyarados, a sashed pokemon with counter or Ice move, another dragon are all counters. Its not ike this thing is a choice-spout Kyogre.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:49 pm

Pialga93 wrote:
Nay, If we're gonna follow this then why not ban gyarados, Dragonite or feraligatr. It's not like sweepers are invincible. Weavile, Swine with ice shard, gyarados, a sashed pokemon with counter or Ice move, another dragon are all counters. Its not ike this thing is a choice-spout Kyogre.
no
a counter has to be able to switch into a move
focus sash really isnt a counter
mamo gets owned by d-meteor/fire blast
gyara takes a ton of damage from d-meteor, and will get killed the following turn
weavile gets destroyed without sash, but that can only be used once, meaning its only a counter for 1 turn
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:30 pm

owned wrote:
Pialga93 wrote:
Nay, If we're gonna follow this then why not ban gyarados, Dragonite or feraligatr. It's not like sweepers are invincible. Weavile, Swine with ice shard, gyarados, a sashed pokemon with counter or Ice move, another dragon are all counters. Its not ike this thing is a choice-spout Kyogre.
no
a counter has to be able to switch into a move
focus sash really isnt a counter
mamo gets owned by d-meteor/fire blast
gyara takes a ton of damage from d-meteor, and will get killed the following turn
weavile gets destroyed without sash, but that can only be used once, meaning its only a counter for 1 turn

Exactly... A counter has to be able to directly switch into the Pokémon it is supposed to be countering without much worry at all. No Pokémon can do that with Salamence as any Pokémon gets 2HKOed with the right moves.

Gyarados is easily countered by Rotom-A, Bulky Waters, Celebi, Zapdos etc... Gatr is just a weak form of Gyarados...Dragonite's considerably lower special attack and speed compared to Mence just make it an afterthought option when compared to Mence.

For some people sayng it is easily taken down... 328 max speed with good defenses and HP make it difficult to revenge kill... Sometimes teams have so much trouble with DD Mence that they are forced to run something silly like Choice Scarf Starmie.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:10 pm

yes, latias really helped keep mence in check with its faster speed and such. in genaral i always lose 1 poke to slamence unless he switches in on something that he dosent ecpect to have an ice move like heatran. (HP)
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence for Ubers...yay or nay?   Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:18 pm

AnjuTehDarkBunny wrote:
I agree, Salamence isnt that hard to take out at all, i like starting off with a Plusle, and whenever i see a Smence, i can still take it down in like 2 turns.

Umm, mate, I can't really see how Plusle is a good pokemon to take down Salamence
1. Salamence's Speed stat is base 100 while Plusle's is base 90 so you'd get outsped and torn apart with earthquake, outrage, etc
2. I am happy that you agree with me but honestly, I wouldn't recommend Plusle being a good pokemon to take down Salamence
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