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Pialga93

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:40 pm

Gir wrote:
Temius wrote:
that doesn't mean anything about their potential usefulness
No, but potential usefulness is highly subjective, numbers are not, numbers are cold and cant lie, thus are more reliable
Most numbers are really just theoretical though, they are not what determine an outcome,especially in a game with so many variables
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:48 pm

Pialga93 wrote:
Gir wrote:
Temius wrote:
that doesn't mean anything about their potential usefulness
No, but potential usefulness is highly subjective, numbers are not, numbers are cold and cant lie, thus are more reliable
Most numbers are really just theoretical though, they are not what determine an outcome,especially in a game with so many variables
Im talking about usage numbers

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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:18 pm

well, the tiers are not based solely on numbers. The tiers ARE subjective, and people can have different opinions about their accuracy
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:18 pm

Temius wrote:
well, the tiers are not based solely on numbers. The tiers ARE subjective, and people can have different opinions about their accuracy
They are not, other that Uber and BL(which arent even tiers, but ban-ñist) ALL tiers are based on Smogon server usage. Besides, Smogon makes those tiers for themselves, no-body is forced to use them, each community has the right to create their own tiers and use them as they please, it is just that Smogon`s are usually regarded as the best

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cdplayar

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:46 pm

Schnoogs already owned this topic, why continue...?
:\

Anyways, the meta-game is not at all broken right now.
Usually things go Uber if their broken (chompchomp.)
Jirachi is an easy take out, and Scizor, well Bullet Punch can be annoying, Scizor is not that hard to take down.
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Pialga93

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:19 pm

Gir wrote:
Temius wrote:
well, the tiers are not based solely on numbers. The tiers ARE subjective, and people can have different opinions about their accuracy
They are not, other that Uber and BL(which arent even tiers, but ban-ñist) ALL tiers are based on Smogon server usage. Besides, Smogon makes those tiers for themselves, no-body is forced to use them, each community has the right to create their own tiers and use them as they please, it is just that Smogon`s are usually regarded as the best
This is a good point, I used to hate smogon because I thought they had made tiers for all to have to be followed, but really it's just players forcing a status quo on everyone else. But it's really only for shoddy, no HAS to use them.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:05 am

Scizor won't go uber for a few reasons:
1. It does not centralize the metagame like Latias or Mence did, just because you see him often doesn't mean he centralizes the Meta, you don't need multiple scizor checks and besides with Ape and Tran usage on the rise he isn't nearly as good as he use to be.

2. There are multiple safe switch ins to his attacks considering he is mainly banded so often they're locked into a move and his move pool blows.

Jirachi won't go uber because he just isn't good enough lol. I'll never know why people ***** about jirachi just because he is a luck oriented pokemon seriously...he isn't good...metagross completely owns him, as do many other pokemon, like tran, ape, etc etc. There is a long list. He's good but not THAT good. Now in the new fire/grass/water meta he won't be seen as much as he was seen in the steel/dragon meta.
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EnglishPlonker

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:35 pm

I've got a odd feeling that t-tar will become uber for some reason, but I don't think any more pokemon need to become uber.

Garchomp is NOT uber
Salamence is NOT uber
Manaphy is NOT uber

That's my opinion, not insults pl0x kthxbai
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Shnoogle

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:44 pm

Neku wrote:
Scizor won't go uber for a few reasons:
1. It does not centralize the metagame like Latias or Mence did, just because you see him often doesn't mean he centralizes the Meta, you don't need multiple scizor checks and besides with Ape and Tran usage on the rise he isn't nearly as good as he use to be.

Latias and Mence were the main reason that Scizor was so incredibly popular, being able to check both and counter Latias quite well. On Shoddy currently, Scizor isn't on every 9 out of 10 teams like it used to be.

And EnglishPlonker - You cannot just post something like that and say "no insults please" because this is a forum where people are free to disagree and argue as they please (within reason). There are so many reasons why
Garchomp is Uber it isn't even funny... He centralized the meta game so so so muchcit wasn't even funny. Salamence doesn't even have a counter and Manaphy's high speed and access to Tail Glow with great bulk across the board make it extremely hard to take down in UU.

Oh yeah, and I don't see any reason at all that T-Tar will go to Ubers... Seriously, why do you think it will? It has a bunch of counters that have other use in OU besides countering T-Tar - Suicune, Machamp, Scizor, Heracross, Breloom, Skarmory, Gliscor the list goes on... Plus, it has a whopping 6 weaknesses and one of those is a 4* weakness.
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EnglishPlonker

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:55 pm

Shnoogle wrote:
Neku wrote:
Scizor won't go uber for a few reasons:
1. It does not centralize the metagame like Latias or Mence did, just because you see him often doesn't mean he centralizes the Meta, you don't need multiple scizor checks and besides with Ape and Tran usage on the rise he isn't nearly as good as he use to be.

Latias and Mence were the main reason that Scizor was so incredibly popular, being able to check both and counter Latias quite well. On Shoddy currently, Scizor isn't on every 9 out of 10 teams like it used to be.

And EnglishPlonker - You cannot just post something like that and say "no insults please" because this is a forum where people are free to disagree and argue as they please (within reason). There are so many reasons why
Garchomp is Uber it isn't even funny... He centralized the meta game so so so muchcit wasn't even funny. Salamence doesn't even have a counter and Manaphy's high speed and access to Tail Glow with great bulk across the board make it extremely hard to take down in UU.

Oh yeah, and I don't see any reason at all that T-Tar will go to Ubers... Seriously, why do you think it will? It has a bunch of counters that have other use in OU besides countering T-Tar - Suicune, Machamp, Scizor, Heracross, Breloom, Skarmory, Gliscor the list goes on... Plus, it has a whopping 6 weaknesses and one of those is a 4* weakness.

I meant no insults as in no harsh insults calling me stupid and shiz, you can disagree, as I said it's my opinin, even if the logic isn't on my side.
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Momo

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:56 pm

Neku wrote:
Scizor won't go uber for a few reasons:
1. It does not centralize the metagame like Latias or Mence did, just because you see him often doesn't mean he centralizes the Meta, you don't need multiple scizor checks and besides with Ape and Tran usage on the rise he isn't nearly as good as he use to be.

2. There are multiple safe switch ins to his attacks considering he is mainly banded so often they're locked into a move and his move pool blows.

Jirachi won't go uber because he just isn't good enough lol. I'll never know why people ***** about jirachi just because he is a luck oriented pokemon seriously...he isn't good...metagross completely owns him, as do many other pokemon, like tran, ape, etc etc. There is a long list. He's good but not THAT good. Now in the new fire/grass/water meta he won't be seen as much as he was seen in the steel/dragon meta.
dont forget his 4x weakness to fire
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:09 pm

don't forget bullet punch and this exciting new thing called SWITCHING OUT!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:21 pm

Temius wrote:
don't forget bullet punch and this exciting new thing called SWITCHING OUT!!!!
scizor still wont go uber
b-p is resisted by a lot of things, and scizor has a lot of common pokes that are counters to it
Also nowadays it's like a prediction game with some gengars, predict wrong and u get ohkoed, not to mention there's ones with sub and hp fire now too
the more u switch out, the more sr damage u get, and the opponent can easily switch predicting ur switch anyway
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:30 pm

when did stealth rock become a part of this? you can't just assume stealth rock is in play when deciding if a poke's good or not. And scizor's not even weak to it. what are you thinking?
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:44 pm

Temius wrote:
when did stealth rock become a part of this? you can't just assume stealth rock is in play when deciding if a poke's good or not. And scizor's not even weak to it. what are you thinking?

Any good battler has a Pokémon with SR on their team and can get it up relatively early in the match... Therefore, even though Scizor is not weak to it, switching in many times to revenge kill things makes it itself much more easy to revenge kill.

Also, you are right when you say that just because a Pokémon is weak to SR doesn't mean it isn't good (just look at Gyarados and Moltres), but when a Pokémon is weak to SR it limits how good it can actually be. You cannot just slap a Charizard on a UU team and expect it to do good without Rapid Spin support, so therefore you have to take into consideration that when you built a team you cannot blindly assume that most teams will not have SR.
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:49 pm

no, but you can't assume anything at all. Maybe you have a rapid spinner, maybe you prevented them from setting up. Don't assume anything when talking about a poke
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:54 pm

Temius wrote:
no, but you can't assume anything at all. Maybe you have a rapid spinner, maybe you prevented them from setting up. Don't assume anything when talking about a poke

I'm sorry but the part in bold just shows your lack of knowledge about competitive Pokémon... Don't assume anything? Dude, you have to assume things about different Pokémon when building a team. You have to assume that there will most of the time be SR on the field and therefore run a Rapid Spinner with Moltres. If you don't ever assume that there will be SR on the field, then it goes like this...

You switch in Moltres to revenge Venusaur while taking 50% from SR
They switch to Milotic on the Fire Blast and you are forced to switch... But wait!!! If you switch then you will die the next time you switch in leaving Venusaur to wreck havoc on your team! But if you don't switch Milotic will just OHKO you with Surf...
Too bad you didn't have a Rapid Spinner
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:20 pm

Shnoogle wrote:
Temius wrote:
no, but you can't assume anything at all. Maybe you have a rapid spinner, maybe you prevented them from setting up. Don't assume anything when talking about a poke

I'm sorry but the part in bold just shows your lack of knowledge about competitive Pokémon... Don't assume anything? Dude, you have to assume things about different Pokémon when building a team. You have to assume that there will most of the time be SR on the field and therefore run a Rapid Spinner with Moltres. If you don't ever assume that there will be SR on the field, then it goes like this...

You switch in Moltres to revenge Venusaur while taking 50% from SR
They switch to Milotic on the Fire Blast and you are forced to switch... But wait!!! If you switch then you will die the next time you switch in leaving Venusaur to wreck havoc on your team! But if you don't switch Milotic will just OHKO you with Surf...
Too bad you didn't have a Rapid Spinner

You just got pwnd FTW
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Gir

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:28 pm

Temius wrote:
no, but you can't assume anything at all. Maybe you have a rapid spinner, maybe you prevented them from setting up. Don't assume anything when talking about a poke
There goes all your credibility as a battler...Garchomp is not uber is tolerable, but that post just made you seem like a complete idiot.
(Also, Im still waiting for a reply of what vet you used to be)

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:33 pm

Gir wrote:
Temius wrote:
no, but you can't assume anything at all. Maybe you have a rapid spinner, maybe you prevented them from setting up. Don't assume anything when talking about a poke
There goes all your credibility as a battler...Garchomp is not uber is tolerable, but that post just made you seem like a complete idiot.
(Also, Im still waiting for a reply of what vet you used to be)

he was a vet? wut?

anyway, shnoogle's right U HAVE TO ASSUME. I mean think about it, u have to make counters for certain pokemon and u have to assume that ur opponent might have them. Such as you might have to assume ur opponent has a mixape, as many people do nowadays, and u cant let urself be too weak to it, and as such, u change ur team around. I mean u cant just be like, "Ok im gonna bring a Moltres to this battle and give it a choice scarf and u-turn to scout, and im not going to bring a rapid spinner b/c they MIGHT NOT have sr in play." Or like, "Ok these 5 common ou leads screw my entire team, but my opponents MIGHT NOT have them, so i dont have to worry."
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 pm

yeah, and then YOU CAN HAVE STARMIE! It's pretty simple. Scizor is the most-used pokemon. Do you know why? Because he is very, very powerful! Many people have starmie and run azelf and aerodacyl, so a lot of times SR won't even go up. What I'm saying is you can either assume that you are terrible at battling and always let your opponent keep SR out the whole game, or that you were slightly prepared and not an idiot. You can assume either way. And I already said, I don't want to say. The circumstances of my leaving were...less than desirable
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:09 pm

Temius wrote:
yeah, and then YOU CAN HAVE STARMIE! It's pretty simple. Scizor is the most-used pokemon. Do you know why? Because he is very, very powerful! Many people have starmie and run azelf and aerodacyl, so a lot of times SR won't even go up. What I'm saying is you can either assume that you are terrible at battling and always let your opponent keep SR out the whole game, or that you were slightly prepared and not an idiot. You can assume either way. And I already said, I don't want to say. The circumstances of my leaving were...less than desirable
ROFL
do u know
how many people
run rotom
nowadays
spinning is much harder than it was before, especially since rotom ohkoes starmie, and some are even scarfed
dude learn b4 u say things
not to mention
Scizor is not going to be the most used anymore, b/c of the leave of mence
The suspect ladder showed that scizor was going to be #8 most used, and usually things follow through with that


Last edited by Darkravenn12 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:11 pm

Temius wrote:
yeah, and then YOU CAN HAVE STARMIE! It's pretty simple. Scizor is the most-used pokemon. Do you know why? Because he is very, very powerful! Many people have starmie and run azelf and aerodacyl, so a lot of times SR won't even go up. What I'm saying is you can either assume that you are terrible at battling and always let your opponent keep SR out the whole game, or that you were slightly prepared and not an idiot. You can assume either way. And I already said, I don't want to say. The circumstances of my leaving were...less than desirable

Just because your opponent has rocks up doesnt mean you suck. you only spin when you have a pokemon weak to rocks. thats the only time its really needed. or unless you're using stall otherwise it fails. starmie is *** raped by everything that ouspeeds it.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:11 pm

no duh. But spinning isn't the only way to avoid SR, there are rotom counters as well, and maybe you won't need to switch out your scizor that often. All I'm saying is that there are an immeasurable number of possibilities, and you can't always assume that only the bad ones will occur. There is a big difference between preparation and assumption
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:13 pm

Temius wrote:
no duh. But spinning isn't the only way to avoid SR, there are rotom counters as well, and maybe you won't need to switch out your scizor that often. All I'm saying is that there are an immeasurable number of possibilities, and you can't always assume that only the bad ones will occur. There is a big difference between preparation and assumption
dude
u have to assume
geez
how do u prepare, u assume
.
and maybe u wont need to switch our ur scizor that often, is an assumption, lol
and how
IS SPINNING NOT THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID SR, LOOK AT WHAT U JUST SAID
and congrats
there are rotom counters
but guess what
rotom just stopped u from spinning, so it filled it's job for now, and there are counters for the counter to rotom even , lol
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