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 Salamence Is Uber?

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Rover

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PostSubject: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:46 pm

I just noticed this... but Salamence is Uber? Lolwut? Didn't it do fine in OU? Looks like I'm moving to Flygon for my OU teams, but seriously, what the heck. I loved using Mence in OU. ._.
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Shnoogle

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:50 pm

He has been Uber for a little over a month now...

This argument has been all over these forums, but basically I am going to sum it up by saying that Salamence had no counters. Nothing can switch in safely to Salamence at all. Cresselia comes the closest, not being KOd by a Draco Meteor followed by an Outrage, but with Sand Stream ever present in OU and its low Attacking stats, it doesn't get used much at all.
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Rover

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:56 pm

Shnoogle wrote:
He has been Uber for a little over a month now...

This argument has been all over these forums, but basically I am going to sum it up by saying that Salamence had no counters. Nothing can switch in safely to Salamence at all. Cresselia comes the closest, not being KOd by a Draco Meteor followed by an Outrage, but with Sand Stream ever present in OU and its low Attacking stats, it doesn't get used much at all.
Gee, I'm slow. I haven't battled Pokemon in quite a while, so I wouldn't pay attention to this. But Salamence cold be defeated by Tyranitar. Though Earthquake could take T-Tar down, some Mence's may not have EQ. :\
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:01 pm

Draco Meteor followed by an EQ KOs all but 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar, which is extremely uncommon. Also, if a Pokémon requires a whole lot of over centralization, meaning that people are forced to run uncommon sets that just specialize on countering one Pokémon, it is, in most cases, considered broken. One more thing, T-Tar's lack of recovery means that it is incredibly easy to just keep wearing him down as he switches in.

Salamence does have multiple checks, such as Suicune, Scarf Flygon etc... but nothing can switch into battle safely once it is already in, which isn't that hard for Mence to do considering it is pretty bulky and has 4* resistance to Grass, immunity to EQ, and a 2* resist to Water and Fire.
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Rover

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:05 pm

Shnoogle wrote:
Draco Meteor followed by an EQ KOs all but 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar, which is extremely uncommon. Also, if a Pokémon requires a whole lot of over centralization, meaning that people are forced to run uncommon sets that just specialize on countering one Pokémon, it is, in most cases, considered broken. One more thing, T-Tar's lack of recovery means that it is incredibly easy to just keep wearing him down as he switches in.

Salamence does have multiple checks, such as Suicune, Scarf Flygon etc... but nothing can switch into battle safely once it is already in, which isn't that hard for Mence to do considering it is pretty bulky and has 4* resistance to Grass, immunity to EQ, and a 2* resist to Water and Fire.
Now, to be honest I don't know much about the subject, or any of Pokemon metagame or whatever, but Mence has it's weakenesses in OU. But what would Mence do in Uber? Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina Lati@s, wouldn't these crush Mence? Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:11 pm

A Pokémon's performance in the Uber environment has absolutely nothing to do whether it is Uber or not. Uber, as many people do not know, is just a ban list for OU that is big enough to have its own metagame. Just because something may not be that great in Uber doesn't mean it isn't too powerful or broken in OU.

However, Salamence is actually an effective Pokémon in the Uber environment. When paired with Rayquaza, these two form and amazing wall breaking combo, and Salamence on its own is a very effective mixed sweeper. His 5 base speed advantage over Rayquaza, ability, and more natural bulk also makes it have its own merits against Rayquaza.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:16 pm

Shnoogle wrote:
A Pokémon's performance in the Uber environment has absolutely nothing to do whether it is Uber or not. Uber, as many people do not know, is just a ban list for OU that is big enough to have its own metagame. Just because something may not be that great in Uber doesn't mean it isn't too powerful or broken in OU.

However, Salamence is actually an effective Pokémon in the Uber environment. When paired with Rayquaza, these two form and amazing wall breaking combo, and Salamence on its own is a very effective mixed sweeper. His 5 base speed advantage over Rayquaza, ability, and more natural bulk also makes it have its own merits against Rayquaza.
Well, if it's in uber, shouldn't you think about what it does in Uber? Uber isn't just a trash can, it's a tier too. Seriously, you have to think about this too.

Well, paired up with Rayquaza it does do good I guess, but it would still get crushed. There are a lot of good dragons in Uber, so... ._.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:19 pm

Rover wrote:
Shnoogle wrote:
A Pokémon's performance in the Uber environment has absolutely nothing to do whether it is Uber or not. Uber, as many people do not know, is just a ban list for OU that is big enough to have its own metagame. Just because something may not be that great in Uber doesn't mean it isn't too powerful or broken in OU.

However, Salamence is actually an effective Pokémon in the Uber environment. When paired with Rayquaza, these two form and amazing wall breaking combo, and Salamence on its own is a very effective mixed sweeper. His 5 base speed advantage over Rayquaza, ability, and more natural bulk also makes it have its own merits against Rayquaza.

Well, if it's in uber, shouldn't you think about what it does in Uber? Uber isn't just a trash can, it's a tier too. Seriously, you have to think about this too.

Well, of course you need to think about what it does in Uber if you are playing that tier, but that has no effect on how broken something is in OU. They are two completely different tiers.

I never said it was a trash can, and I know it is a tier. As I said before
Shnoogle wrote:
Uber... is just a ban list for OU that is big enough to have its own metagame
I don't see where I said it was a trash can =/
And when I said the bold part, you can kind of realize that I am saying it is a tier.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:21 pm

i say we send garchomp out to counter salamence
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:26 pm

I could easily take care of it with ice beam but now thats it gone i can have roar
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:35 pm

Momo wrote:
I could easily take care of it with ice beam but now thats it gone i can have roar


was this issue with salamence bought up just a month ago?
because really if it was it was smogons fault for writing up movesets and overanalyzing him, just like with chompy

No

his movesets will be a little modified for uber nows :>


D: its so out of place!
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:39 pm

Shnoogle wrote:
Rover wrote:
Shnoogle wrote:
A Pokémon's performance in the Uber environment has absolutely nothing to do whether it is Uber or not. Uber, as many people do not know, is just a ban list for OU that is big enough to have its own metagame. Just because something may not be that great in Uber doesn't mean it isn't too powerful or broken in OU.

However, Salamence is actually an effective Pokémon in the Uber environment. When paired with Rayquaza, these two form and amazing wall breaking combo, and Salamence on its own is a very effective mixed sweeper. His 5 base speed advantage over Rayquaza, ability, and more natural bulk also makes it have its own merits against Rayquaza.

Well, if it's in uber, shouldn't you think about what it does in Uber? Uber isn't just a trash can, it's a tier too. Seriously, you have to think about this too.

Well, of course you need to think about what it does in Uber if you are playing that tier, but that has no effect on how broken something is in OU. They are two completely different tiers.

I never said it was a trash can, and I know it is a tier. As I said before
Shnoogle wrote:
Uber... is just a ban list for OU that is big enough to have its own metagame
I don't see where I said it was a trash can =/
And when I said the bold part, you can kind of realize that I am saying it is a tier.
Neutral Ban list, it's a tier. And I know you never said it was a trash can, just saying ban list made me believe it wasn't a tier, just a "trash can".

Anyways, I get were you are going. It was just booted to Uber. Now, they probably didn't think much of how it would do in Uber, but it was strong in OU. Me being an Uber battler I take it from the Uber prospective. For some reason, Mence just doesn't seem like it is Uber quality. Mad


Last edited by Rover on Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:42 pm

Lol dude if you don't know about the pokemon metagame don't talk about how you think a Tyranitar can single handedly take down a Salamence. Look at Umbreon, nobody uses him and to be honest he's terrible in OU but does that stop him from being OU? No.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:54 pm

Neku wrote:
Lol dude if you don't know about the pokemon metagame don't talk about how you think a Tyranitar can single handedly take down a Salamence. Look at Umbreon, nobody uses him and to be honest he's terrible in OU but does that stop him from being OU? No.
I can't give my opinions on it? :/ I am using what knowledge I know and understand.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:57 pm

Rover wrote:
Neku wrote:
Lol dude if you don't know about the pokemon metagame don't talk about how you think a Tyranitar can single handedly take down a Salamence. Look at Umbreon, nobody uses him and to be honest he's terrible in OU but does that stop him from being OU? No.
I can't give my opinions on it? :/ I am using what knowledge I know and understand.
Lawlz don't give your opinion if you don't understand the situation broski.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:58 pm

question for you guys :0

do you see garchomp often in uber battles?

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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:43 am

Neku wrote:
Rover wrote:
Neku wrote:
Lol dude if you don't know about the pokemon metagame don't talk about how you think a Tyranitar can single handedly take down a Salamence. Look at Umbreon, nobody uses him and to be honest he's terrible in OU but does that stop him from being OU? No.
I can't give my opinions on it? :/ I am using what knowledge I know and understand.
Lawlz don't give your opinion if you don't understand the situation broski.
I understand somethings and I don't know other things. >.> I can still give my opinion. Can we just end this subject, because I said I don't know much about the Pokemon metagame, so I know some things.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:48 am

Evil wrote:
question for you guys :0

do you see garchomp often in uber battles?


Yes, he is frequently is Uber Battles as he is an amazing Scarfer, SD Haban Sweeper, and he provides a great Electric immunity.
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:15 am

Evil wrote:
question for you guys :0

do you see garchomp often in uber battles?

I've seen him quite often, but I never used him. I don't why, just never appealed to me. silent
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:49 am

Uber = OU OUs
kapeesh?
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PostSubject: Re: Salamence Is Uber?   Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:42 pm

cdplayar wrote:
Uber = OU OUs
kapeesh?
umm no
Uber=Banlist for ou's that overcentralize the metagame and are too good to be in ou
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