Moltres :))

Changes will be in Italic
Moltres @ Leftovers
Evs~ 132 HP, 100 Def, 184 Spe, 92 SpA
Nature~Timid Nature (+Speed, -Attack)

~Flamethrower

~Roost

~Will-O-Wisp

~Roar
–
So this is basically meant to be a bulky Moltres to counter some physical threats, the Defense and Hp evs allow it to survive a Stone Edge from offensive DDGyara after it's been burnt. The set is meant to be able to cripple physical sweepers and be able to Phaze any sweepers or tanks trying to set up. Roost is obviously for healing. The Speed evs allow it to outspeed neutral base 90 pokemon and plus nature base 80 pokemon. The Special Attack evs allow it to always OHKO specially defensive skarm and forretress with Fire Blast. Now, before you tell me about it's Stealth Rock weakness, I will be using a rapid spinner on the team with it.

Saw it on TMN, and i wanted to comment but i didnt know if i could in that topic anyways its a cool set even though moltres doesnt have the best defenses overall

I've had some experience with Moltres in OU. Though I do believe the statement of surviving Gyarados' Stone Edge after burning it is anything but reliable. I also don't really see the point of investing so much into Sp.A and using an inaccurate unreliable attack as your only means of offense on something that's really screaming Heatran bait to kill two things that would never stay in on Moltres. However Moltres is underrated in OU since it can counter a lot of the metagame.

Flamethrower should definitely be your option > Fire Blast. The power is nice but since it can counter Scizor, Lucario, and Celebi it's good to have something reliable to take them down. And honestly Skarmory wouldn't stay in to take a STAB Flamethrower if you're already made it apparent you have a Rapid Spinner (and if it has yet to show it's face you can possibly score a free kill but it most likely won't matter either way). Since Heatran finds Moltres to be set up bait or a free FF activation, you can try HP-Ground > Roar. This gives you something to atleast tap Tyranitar with, and also lets Moltres counter Infernape. And it obviously OHKO's Heatran. Another option is HP-Electric for Gyarados since you can't always assure you'll be at 100% by the time it switches in and rely on WoW to hit it every time. Also gives you something to hit bulky Waters with that are weakened... well it's better than Flamethrower. Grass is always an option as well since it hits bulky Waters too but nails Swampert.

Also I'd be a bit more conservative about the Ev's, especially since you're investing into a single attack. It doesn't need to outrun neutral base 90's because non-Stone Edge Lucario is walled silly and Porygon-Z shouldn't be Moltres' problem. I'd run an Impish spread with 164 HP/ 156 Defense/ 188 Speed for the standard defensive set. Outruns Adamant Gyarados (if you opt for HP-Electric) and Jolly Breloom, has plenty of defense, and HP cuts off 4 damage if SR hasn't been RS'd. For those who are paranoid about Heracross, as Jolly Hera could predict on the WoW and then proceed to rape your team, they can run 152 HP/ 140 Defense/ 216 Speed with a Timid nature. Gives plenty of bulk while outrunning said threat.

Otherwise the set is effective. Moltres has a bunch of incredibly useful resistances: resists Fire, Fighting, and Steel, resists Bug and Grass x4, and is immune to Ground. With an active Rapid Spinner it is not easy to break down.

Darkhunter101 wrote:

Herpdidderp wrote:

I've had some experience with Moltres in OU. Though I do believe the statement of surviving Gyarados' Stone Edge after burning it is anything but reliable.

I did a calc, it DOES live...

Never said it didn't. The point is that it deals 83.6 - 99.4%, I'm saying it's unreliable as Jolly Gyarados outruns your set and scores the OHKO, WoW can miss, or the most likely one is that Moltres isn't at 100% and is forced to switch out before it has any use with WoW or simply burns and gets OHKO'd. It's something that can work but otherwise it's not really something listable. It's like saying 252 HP/ 4 Defense Tyranitar (atleast I'm pretty sure it was 4 Defense, could be like 8 ) can survive an unboosted Metagross' Meteor Mash. It doesn't have a purpose as in most cases people would just switch out and go to their counter.

It's a nice thing to have, but it's not something to aim for with defenses.

For one thing his Evs are everywere make it in to a special wall of a physical if you want a wall if you want both get a bastiodon or a registeel...
also there are better will-o-wispers like dusknor...
moltres has a x4 SR weakness soo it probably wont be able to be switching in...most teams will have a stealth rock user!
what if your opponent has a houndoom you wont be able to do anything to it only thing you can do if take a hit and roar it away...
unless you have a rapid spinner his move set arent that usefull!

Darkhunter101 wrote:

Now, before you tell me about it's Stealth Rock weakness, I will be using a rapid spinner on the team with it.

sosogamer wrote:

unless you have a rapid spinner his move set arent that usefull!

wat

I say U-turn over Roar and pair this up with Vaporeon with HP Electric and a Rapid Spinner.

Herpdidderp wrote:

Flamethrower should definitely be your option > Fire Blast. The power is nice but since it can counter Scizor, Lucario, and Celebi it's good to have something reliable to take them down. And honestly Skarmory wouldn't stay in to take a STAB Flamethrower if you're already made it apparent you have a Rapid Spinner (and if it has yet to show it's face you can possibly score a free kill but it most likely won't matter either way). Since Heatran finds Moltres to be set up bait or a free FF activation, you can try HP-Ground > Roar. This gives you something to atleast tap Tyranitar with, and also lets Moltres counter Infernape. And it obviously OHKO's Heatran. Another option is HP-Electric for Gyarados since you can't always assure you'll be at 100% by the time it switches in and rely on WoW to hit it every time. Also gives you something to hit bulky Waters with that are weakened... well it's better than Flamethrower. Grass is always an option as well since it hits bulky Waters too but nails Swampert.
What exactly can Heatran do to Moltres anyway...? Even after flash fire most are scarfed and get locked into a move giving me a switch, if they aren't scarfed i get a free kill. Oh and as far as i'm aware most carry hp grass >> hp ice

Also I'd be a bit more conservative about the Ev's, especially since you're investing into a single attack. It doesn't need to outrun neutral base 90's because non-Stone Edge Lucario is walled silly and Porygon-Z shouldn't be Moltres' problem. I'd run an Impish spread with 164 HP/ 156 Defense/ 188 Speed for the standard defensive set. Outruns Adamant Gyarados (if you opt for HP-Electric) and Jolly Breloom, has plenty of defense, and HP cuts off 4 damage if SR hasn't been RS'd. For those who are paranoid about Heracross, as Jolly Hera could predict on the WoW and then proceed to rape your team, they can run 152 HP/ 140 Defense/ 216 Speed with a Timid nature. Gives plenty of bulk while outrunning said threat.
And you're saying most Luke's don't run stone edge? In my experience they do. also if one sets up an SD this moltres is also a perfect counter. Also as far as i know Hera's usage has dropped a lot, i never see it, and i'm about 100 CRE off the leaderboard. And any nonscarfed variant of Hera is easily killed anyway, because after guts i'll still outspeed and knock it's hp down enough with a flamethrower for a revenge killer to finish it off.

Otherwise the set is effective. Moltres has a bunch of incredibly useful resistances: resists Fire, Fighting, and Steel, resists Bug and Grass x4, and is immune to Ground. With an active Rapid Spinner it is not easy to break down.

Also on you're other post; It does outrun Jolly Gyara, i forgot to mention it =/
Also i see what you mean about the defense being a problem. I just wanted to show you how well this set can take physical hits, i'm not stupid enough to actually stay in and try to burn an Offensive Gyara, lol.

@soso; YOUR POINTS ARE INVALID. lol.
There aren't evs everywhere, i gave reasoning for my evs, i don't want it to be a wall, i want it to be able to cripple strong physical threats and live to tell the tale. You don't have to only use 252/252/4 you know =/. Well as already said i'll be using this in OU, and if i see a houndoom there either the persons a noob or they're good enough to know that i wouldn't stay in.

@Casey ; as already stated i am using a rapid spinner, but i haven't worked out the team completely yet so i might take the vappy suggestion into account.

Quote :

What exactly can Heatran do to Moltres anyway...? Even after flash fire most are scarfed and get locked into a move giving me a switch, if they aren't scarfed i get a free kill.

Wait, so your mono-Fire attacker can get a free KO on Heatran. How do non-Scarfed Heatrans give you a free kill? You probably have a teammate that you have yet to mention, otherwise this is just confusing and contradictory (or you're agreeing that HP-Ground is an option). Also Heatran can use Explosion, though admitantly it's not the best option. HP-Electric can potentially score a 2KHO from a Scarf though Specs can score an easy OHKO if you drop below 80%. And there's always the predicted Roost to get blasted by Earth Power. And Taunt sets detroy this one. There's not too much but it's more than your set without HP-Ground can do back other than Roar and hope for the best.

Quote :

And you're saying most Luke's don't run stone edge? In my experience they do. also if one sets up an SD this moltres is also a perfect counter. Also as far as i know Hera's usage has dropped a lot, i never see it, and i'm about 100 CRE off the leaderboard. And any nonscarfed variant of Hera is easily killed anyway, because after guts i'll still outspeed and knock it's hp down enough with a flamethrower for a revenge killer to finish it off.

You are terribly misinformed or you have been fighting all 8.5% who use Stone Edge Lucario. It's about as common as Vacuum Wave or Shadow Ball. If SR is down by the time Lucario comes out Moltres is in no way a counter. I am well aware you have an RSer with it but honestly you cannot always say it will be gone. And your set is easily OHKO'd by +2 LO Extremespeed from an Adamant or Jolly set, and since Jolly outruns you a +2 LO Close Combat also scores a OHKO after SR kicks in. This set lacks the defensive prowess it needs to have it's longevity. The Impish set I provided has much more durability.

Hera's usage has dropped but it is still a threat. A lot of teams are extremely weak to a well played Hera, and it's the reason I avoid Toxic Spikes in stall without a solid counter. It's simply an option or a higher speed point to hit. Also your set only hits 288 speed, which I should have checked before talking about Gyarados tbh, and Jolly Heracross hits 295. So no, you won't be able to KO it haha.

Also don't quote your CRE status, no offense. In a day with stall I went to 1450 before I got bored and I don't think that's impressive. Unless you're sitting comfortably in the top 50 it doesn't make you look good tbh :/

Also Starmie does a better job hand in hand with Moltres since it generally counters what Vaporeon counters but can absorb status, has Recover instead of Wish/Protect taking up two slots, and RS's for your team so you don't have to waste a second spot. Just an option.