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 Who should be made uber?

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multirider049

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:16 pm

Darkravenn12 wrote:
Temius wrote:
no duh. But spinning isn't the only way to avoid SR, there are rotom counters as well, and maybe you won't need to switch out your scizor that often. All I'm saying is that there are an immeasurable number of possibilities, and you can't always assume that only the bad ones will occur. There is a big difference between preparation and assumption
dude
u have to assume
geez
how do u prepare, u assume
.
and maybe u wont need to switch our ur scizor that often, is an assumption, lol
and how
IS SPINNING NOT THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID SR, LOOK AT WHAT U JUST SAID
and congrats
there are rotom counters
but guess what
rotom just stopped u from spinning, so it filled it's job for now, and there are counters for the counter to rotom even , lol

He's right. its not easy to get rid of rotom. and the only way to stop rocks is spinning. people always assume when they make teams. like you're assuming everyone has rocks. which isnt true.
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:18 pm

I don't think you understand my point at all. Maybe you prevented stealth rock from coming out at all. Maybe you predicted a rotom switch and countered it. All I'm saying is don't make a team assuming that every opposing team you face will be tailored to defeat yours. Use a risk-reward strategy. And when you think about the risk and reward of Scizor, you see that it is a dominant force
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:20 pm

and Rotom usage has dropped quite a bit recently, as well
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Momo

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:27 pm

Temius wrote:
and Rotom usage has dropped quite a bit recently, as well
Haha thats funny
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:37 pm

It has.
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cdplayar

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:39 pm

This topic is a taco full of flame.
:3
Dude, you always assume the worse, and expect even worse than that!
Hypocrit btwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

You said you assumed something.
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:40 pm

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:42 pm

could an admin please delete this topic? This has gone beyond its original purpose
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Shnoogle

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:14 pm

I don't think it needs to be deleted... It's actually a quite interesting theorymon conversation (/arguement lol)...

@Temius - You say you are new to competative Pokemon in general in another one of your threads...
To be honest, all of the people who have disagreed with your statement are all experienced battlers (Darkravenn, Gir, cdplayar... Sorry if I missed someone) and therefore know a lot more about the subject than you do. I'm not trying to make you look bad or anything, but please before posting somewhat ignorant statements like you can never assume things about Pokemon just think twice before actually pressing the post button.
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Darkravenn12

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:52 am

I agree with shnoogle
And yeah cdplayar's right u did assume something temius, lol, actually u assumed a lot of things
anyway just for the heck of it, scizor should not go uber
There are soo many counters and checks it's not even funny, gyarados, heatran, skarm, rotom, etc.
not to mention there's celebi with hp fire now
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:03 am

For the umpteenth time, what I meant was that, you must actually think about the likelihood of situations, rather than assuming they will all always play in someone else's favor. You can't assume only one set of possibilities. This thread is unrecognizable. It used to be a about ubers and it has dissolved into something much less than that.
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Darkravenn12

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:05 am

Temius wrote:
For the umpteenth time, what I meant was that, you must actually think about the likelihood of situations, rather than assuming they will all always play in someone else's favor. You can't assume only one set of possibilities. This thread is unrecognizable. It used to be a about ubers and it has dissolved into something much less than that.
just for the record
this happened b/c u were sooo persistent about scizor being uber
and this is an interesting discussion to say the least
btw there are many possibilities of scizor failing even without sr, so we are recognizing more than 1 situation
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:12 am

I am more persistent in my philosophy of preparedness over assumption than in my belief that scizor centralizes the metagame. I personally couldn't care less. I'm not annoyed that much by Scizor. I was just defending my philosophy. I had not intention of "starting anything"
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:08 am

For the record, Scizor does NOT centralize the OU Metagame. It has so many checks and counters it's not even funny. I don't want to be rude but I agree with Schoogle. And I remember reading one of your posts saying that you were new to competive battling. I'm thinking that your lack of experience made you assume the "belief about Scizor". As an experienced battler would know that Scizor is easily counterable. Not be rude.
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:20 am

what I'm saying is that scizor is in maybe 1 out of every 5 teams, and taking him out would encourage more variety in the OU metagame
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:29 am

Then you need to learn a new tier. OU is not a tier where you will see variety in the Metagame. The reason you see same pokes in OU is: They all have a counter. When they are moved to Ubers, they have no counters in OU and that they centralize the Metagame. Scizor does not do that.
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multirider049

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:15 pm

Temius wrote:
what I'm saying is that scizor is in maybe 1 out of every 5 teams, and taking him out would encourage more variety in the OU metagame

Tyranitar is in more teams, but that means nothing at all. Its how you use the pokes that matter in the long run. Not what you use. Plus its obvious you're gonna see ou pokes in ou. So obviously you're gonna see scizor alot like every other ou poke.
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Darkravenn12

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:23 pm

Temius wrote:
what I'm saying is that scizor is in maybe 1 out of every 5 teams, and taking him out would encourage more variety in the OU metagame
i agree with every else
not to mention like ape is in like every 1/3 teams, but it doesnt matter how much it's used if it doesnt over centralize the metagame
i mean
by ur logic
if every1 started using like wurmple in ou (yes i know that's severely retarded, but bear with it) , and it was on ever 1/5 teams
It should go uber and make more variety in the metagame
sorry, but that's just not how it works
People will always "ou whore" and there are pokemon u will see all the time b/c of how good they are
take 1 out just to try and make it more diverse, and a new poke will take it's place
Almost every1 here who has posted is an experienced battler, and as u said, u are just new, so take what othes say and do not try to defeat it UNLESS u have a lot of logic, other than just, "ok it has a lot of checks and counters, but by removing it there will be more diversity." B/c honestly, that's just a stupid reason, b/c as I said b4, new things will take it's place
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Shnoogle

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:38 pm

Darkravenn12 wrote:

i agree with every else
not to mention like ape is in like every 1/3 teams, but it doesnt matter how much it's used if it doesnt over centralize the metagame
i mean
by ur logic
if every1 started using like wurmple in ou (yes i know that's severely retarded, but bear with it) , and it was on ever 1/5 teams
It should go uber and make more variety in the metagame
sorry, but that's just not how it works
People will always "ou whore" and there are pokemon u will see all the time b/c of how good they are
take 1 out just to try and make it more diverse, and a new poke will take it's place
Almost every1 here who has posted is an experienced battler, and as u said, u are just new, so take what othes say and do not try to defeat it UNLESS u have a lot of logic, other than just, "ok it has a lot of checks and counters, but by removing it there will be more diversity." B/c honestly, that's just a stupid reason, b/c as I said b4, new things will take it's place

The bold part is so very true... When one Pokémon is taken out a a metagame, another Pokémon will always try to fill the void, although they might not fill it as well. Just look at the Manectric hype in UU right now, all because Raikou was just recently taken out of the tier. Same with when Salamence was taken out of OU, Dragonite has seen much more usage.

Another thing... If Scizor is taken out, or any other Pokémon for that matter, what will happen is that the Pokémon who Scizor easily counters such as Gengar and Tyranitar will see much more usage because they have 1 less opportunity to have their sweep be cut short. Therefore, the metagame will shift in a way to have other Pokémon counter these Pokémon and the metagame will be just as centralized as before, except with the centralization around other Pokémon.
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:45 pm

regardless of if things will take its place, the temporary diversity created is invaluable. Garchomp, Latias, and and salamence all had counters. Named mamoswine and anything with ice shard, but they were being used too much and were banned because of that. People should not always have to make their team to counter a certain pokemon, so if one poke is used too much, it should be banned. Also, just because I said I was "new" 2 months ago does not mean I don't understand the way the game works. I am not an idiot, and being experienced does not necessarily mean you aren't an idiot and are incapable of doing wrong. Don't be so conceited. Respect my **** opinion and come up with a logical argument
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Darkravenn12

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:49 pm

Temius wrote:
regardless of if things will take its place, the temporary diversity created is invaluable. Garchomp, Latias, and and salamence all had counters. Named mamoswine and anything with ice shard, but they were being used too much and were banned because of that. People should not always have to make their team to counter a certain pokemon, so if one poke is used too much, it should be banned. Also, just because I said I was "new" 2 months ago does not mean I don't understand the way the game works. I am not an idiot, and being experienced does not necessarily mean you aren't an idiot and are incapable of doing wrong. Don't be so conceited. Respect my **** opinion and come up with a logical argument
wrong
mence had no counters
mamo with ice shard is not a counter
a counter has to be able to switch in and take ANY attack
mamo dies to ice shard
and no u cannot count focus sash as a counter
and no it's not because they were being used too much
it's because they overcentralized the metagame
latias did severe damage
and
garchomp forced insane sandstorm use, and there was not much that could take an sd boosted outrage/eq
and dude
the only 1 with an illogical argument is you
it's like 5 on 1
and u still think ur right
learn when to accept defeat
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Temius

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:52 pm

this isn't a fight. I'm just expressing my opinion and you are expressing yours. I could not care less what you think, I just wish to say what I think. Also, if I used counter the wrong way, sue me. I mean that if you predict well, a swine with ice shard can force a switch or KO it in one hit. don't flame me. This conversation is just speculative. There is no reason to be rude or angry. Just calm down
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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:54 pm

wow
u know im now starting to wish i didnt come back
All I see are once again noobs who cant take criticism. I give up
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EnglishPlonker

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:09 pm

I'd suggest you both calm down before this turns any worse, went a tad too far now.
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Shnoogle

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PostSubject: Re: Who should be made uber?   Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:12 pm

Ugh... So... Many... Errors

Seriously, dude, are you kidding me?

Salamence has NO counters AT ALL. How is Mamoswine a counter? More like a check. Counters are supposed to be able to directly switch into basically any attack and threaten the Pokémon with a move that will OHKO, or threaten to set up on it. Mamoswine, Weavile etc... All get OHKOed by Draco Meteor/Fire Blast on the switch. This just even more shows your inexperience because the most common set was Fire Blast / Draco Meteor / Outrage / Earthquake. Nothing isn't 2HKOed by Salamence with that moveset, and no faster Pokémon can switch in because they are frail and are easily OHKOed (Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Gengar, Infernape etc...). Yes, of course Garchomp had counters with a move pool of Outrage / Draco Meteor / Fire Fang/Blast / Crunch / Earthquake while being able to easily set up on bulky waters with a Yache Berry, as well as it having 2 more base Speed than Salamence so even positive base 100's cannot revenge kill... AND his 20% evasion boost in sand. Latias' counters were pretty much limited to Scarf-Tar and Blissey... The former was easily set up on by random Pokémon and the latter is universally taken out of the game with a well timed Trick of the specs.

Temius wrote:
they were being used too much and were banned because of that.

This also shows your lack of knowledge... You honestly think that they were banned because they were used too much? They were banned because they completely centralized the metagame and were overpowered. Even if 2 out of 100 teams used these Pokémon when they were still in OU, it wouldn't matter because they would still be overpowered. Let's see how they over centralized the metagame, shall we?

Grachomp - Pretty much every team you faced was a sandstorm team to abuse Garchomp's ability Sand Veil. Every team ran Weavile and/or Mamoswine to "Check it" (Yache Chomp isn't OHKOed by Ice Shard from either even when CB'd), as well as Skarmory and/or Bronzong... There was not much room for creativity because if you got creative you got swept.

Latias - Did you notice that Scarf Tar was on 85% of teams? As well as Scizor to check it, and even then Latias carried HP [Fire] sometimes. Specs Draco Meteor pretty much 2HKOed everything in the game bar Blissey, Sp. Defensive Snorlax, and some Steels. Even though some Steels could switch in to take Draco Meteor, a wrong prediction and you just lost Scizor to HP [Fire] or Heatran to Surf or Empoleon to Thunderbolt etc... Over centralization yet again, as well as being incredibly broken.

Salamence - He has no Counter at all. The only relatively safe switch was Cresselia, who, besides barely surviving Draco Meteor followed by an Outrage has limited use. It's an invitation for Scizor to come in and Spam U-Turn, or Tyranitar to fire off CB'd Crunches etc... Overall, it was just an overpowered Pokémon with too high of stats and an exceptionally god move pool.

Temius wrote:
People should not always have to make their team to counter a certain pokemon, so if one poke is used too much, it should be banned.

OK this sounds so incredibly stupid... If you don't take into account every threat when making a team, you are going to get your butt whooped, plain and simple. Also, that's the point of Pokémon... Trying to make the best team possible to at least have a way to take down every Pokémon on the other team.

I already touched the fact that just because a Pokémon is used on many player's teams has no effect whatsoever on it getting banned. A Pokémon is banned from standard play when it centralizes the metagame, is able to sweep relatively easily, has little to no counters at all, makes it incredibly easy for another Pokémon to sweep (that's the reaosn why Froslass was banned from UU... Because it easily got at least two layers of Spikes up and could even Spin-Block its own Spikes without having to use another Ghost like Spiritomb or Rotom), or if it walls the majority of the metagame.

Temius wrote:
Respect my **** opinion and come up with a logical argument

Well, since the F word does not fit in correctly grammatically, I have to assume that you are saying respect my S@!+ opinion, which is hard to do, really.

And I have to say, I think did make a logical argument.
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