RM Lead Hariyama

Hariyama - Adamant
Burn Orb (Guts)
252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Spe
Fake Out
Bullet Punch
Facade
Close Combat

My idea for a lead hariyama. Start out with a fake out to get the flinch of course and to activate the burn orb. It doesn't matter if they predict the fake out since it is mostly there to allow the burn orb to activate, and then the next turn will probably be the bullet punch to finish the switch or the lead (unless it is something that resists b punch). Facade is there for the boost in power due to the burn and CC for STAB of course. Tell me what you think; I know that hariyama has a decent move pool but I believe that this set is very good for a lead

I don't know about Bullet Punch on Hariyama, even if it is a lead. I prefer Payback. But that's just me. It's really a preference thing.

Oh, It's actually called Flame Orb, by the way.

Even with max attack and Guts, an unSTABed Bullet Punch won't be doing much. -FROM EXPERIENCE.

I suggest another move (Payback [Ghosts&Psychics], Ice Punch [Dragons and whatnot], or Stone Edge [Flyers, etc.]) over Bullet Punch. Mainly for extra coverage, as if you use Bullet Punch you can't do squat to Ghost-types.

Other than that, the set looks great. (:

what they said... you're screwed against gengar unless you slap payback on

besides that, it's lookin good

I'd like to disagree with that but my damage calculator isn't working on my itouch. Anyways I did find that after the guts boost hariyama is able to OHKO common leads such as aerodactyl and weavile when they're sashes are gone. Unless I'm having a major brain fart I have to believe that a bullet punch would have to do at least half if not more so to a gengar or other related ghosts. I could understand a dusknoir being a defensive threat, but otherwise I don't see ghosts being major problem. I understand that both of my examples of possible leads have weaknesses to bullet punch but ghosts not named dusknoir aren't known for there defenses. A psychic from a gengar could be destructive but once again, no damage calculator :/

Edit: I actually have no idea about the aerodactyl or weavile being OHKO'd by the bullet punch. My first time using the calculator said it was a OHKO but I have no idea anymore... If someone could check on the calculations that would be very helpful. However I still stand by the fact that a guts boosted bullet punch has to do considerable damage to those that do not resist it

assuming you roll MAX DAMAGE twice in a row... a fake out followed by a bullet punch from this hariyama will never KO a 0 Def, 0 HP Aero. **% max damage

Weavile leads usually have fake out... bam your fake out is useless. they also usually have counter... bam you bullet punch they counter for the kill. you do at most 81% with bullet punch


for a 0 def, 0 HP gengar, a bullet punch without the flame orb boost is at max 31% damage... which means barely a 3HKO when you factor in the burn the next two turns

Shnoogle wrote:

assuming you roll MAX DAMAGE twice in a row... a fake out followed by a bullet punch from this hariyama will never KO a 0 Def, 0 HP Aero. **% max damage

Weavile leads usually have fake out... bam your fake out is useless. they also usually have counter... bam you bullet punch they counter for the kill. you do at most 81% with bullet punch

Note, i did factor in flame orb when necessary (after fake out)

for a 0 def, 0 HP gengar, a bullet punch without the flame orb boost is at max 31% damage... which means barely a 3HKO when you factor in the burn the next two turns

The burn doesn't effect the attack of a Pokemon with Guts.

yeah it does it boosts its atack by 1.5

I think he ment lowering the Pokemon's attack, which is what a burn on a Pokemon without Guts will do. Being burned when you have Guts neutralizes the halving of attack.

Greene is exactly right, the burn does not effect pokemon with the ability guts. Try that in your damage calculator. I did forget about weavile using counter but of course I remembered the fake out. Together that probably would take out hariyama, but otherwise I still believe that you are underestimating his attacking abilities. Obviously I'm not expecting miracles with a single bullet punch but his attack is nothing to scoff at.

Guts both gives the attack boost and neutralizes the attack loss of the burn. Therefore a 1.5 attack boost would take place (no difference from a toxic orb)

Shnoogle wrote:

yeah it does it boosts its atack by 1.5

isn't that what i said?

and if he thought i meant lowering then that was a stupid move

if after one bullet punch it does 31% damage max to gengar for the first turn with no burn... and he thought i meant it lowers attack... then it would never be a 3HKO... even if you didnt get the attack drop it STILL wouldn't be a 3HKO with max damage. only with the 1.5* boost from flame orb is it a 3HKO

plus, notice here "the flame orb boost is at max 31% damage..." I said flame orb BOOST which means higher

Either way I find it hard to believe that a pokemon with a good (just shy of great) attack stat needs 3 attacks with a neutral albeit weak attack move on a pokemon with mediocre defenses.

its a 40 power unstabed move

hariyama basically used a priority scratch on gengar... then 2 priority aerial aces to finish it off (counting the boost)

I never brought up the the fact of coming into a lead gengar but either hariyama's attack is still great and gengars defenses are still bad. I'm not doubting you or your damage calculator but I'm still going to need hard proof. Maybe it's the pain meds I'm on right now but I can't wrap my mind around the fact that he can't even 2HKO with bullet punch. But if this is the fact, the general agreement is to swap b punch with payback, right?

lol yeah you dont sound quite right (umm... write quite right. hey a rhyme!)

try it on your own damage calc. I don't think I should have to persuade you as I do not see many benefits other than a little more harsh posts

do a calc yourself i dont care

take into consideration that a 0def 0HP gengar can survive a gyarados (nmon life orbed) waterfall (the bulky taunter set on smogon it has 327ish attack i know i have one it owns) with like 10% left

Yeah seriously I just took some strong meds so I wouldn't be surprised... I'll try the calculator tomorrow since it's about midnight here. But really a gengar can live through a gyrados' waterfall?! That's pretty intense. And the last thing I'm trying to do is start an argument so I'll do the calculations tomorrow and find out in person. Thx and goodnight!

Unfortunately it turns out that Shnoog is right and that hariyama cannot 2HKO a Gengar with Bullet Punch boosted by Guts unless it gets about max damage each time and Gengar attacks with an attack other than Shadow Ball twice and dies of Life Orb Damage :-/

With this being said, i might as well switch Bullet Punch with Payback seeing that he can do a lot more damage to the likes of ghosts (that are unaffected by other moves) and some other leads such as Azelf and Uxie. Dont think im missing anything else important so i think this is ready to be locked. Thx